Historian Monica Mercado joins me to explore nineteenth-century utopian communities — from the polyamorous, silverware-making Oneida community to the celibate, achingly chic Shakers — and what draws people to radical experiments in communal living then and now. We get into charismatic male leaders who will always, always disappoint you, why the Shakers are having a moment (three members and counting!), and how nuns, queer culture, and Oprah Winfrey might all be connected. Spoiler alert: building a better world is not easy, but someone has to do it.
Timestamps
00:00 – Intro: TikTok nuns, convent summers, and the desire to leave society
05:59 – Setting the scene: the “burned over district” and 19th-century utopian movements in upstate New York
11:18 – Oneida: complex marriage, male continence, and why the silverware in your drawer might have a complicated history
21:10 – Where Oneida goes wrong: eugenics, the government crackdown, and the charismatic male leader who runs away to Canada
27:23 – Enter the Shakers: celibacy, beautiful furniture, and a female founder who said God is both woman and man
36:18 – The last Shakers: Brother Arnold, Sister June, and the new member who just boosted global numbers to three
48:07 – Nuns now: who’s joining convents today, student loan debt as a barrier to entry, and the old nuns making protest signs on Facebook
1:06:24 – Final thoughts: what utopian communities teach us about actually building (not just imagining) a better world
Resources & Links Mentioned
- “I Am Anne Lee” by Eileen Myles (https://lithub.com/a-prose-poem-by-eileen-myles-ann-lee/ )
- Visit the Oneida Mansion House — museum, B&B, and historic site in Oneida, NY (oneidacommunity.org)
- Ellen Wayland-Smith’s Oneida: From Free Love Utopia to the Well-Set Table (https://bookshop.org/a/102042/9781250131867 )
- Visit Shaker sites: Hancock Shaker Village — the Shaker museum Mary visited in Pittsfield, MA (hancockshakervillage.org). Shakers upstate (Albany, Chatham/Mount Lebanon. Sabbath Day Lake Shaker Village — home of the last living Shakers in New Gloucester, Maine (maineshakers.com)
- There Are NO Black Shakers is a contemporary folk opera re-interpreting traditional Shaker hymns to tell the very true story of Prime Lane, a free Black man who joined the Shaker Society in Albany in 1802.
- The New York Times profile of Brother Arnold and Sister June (2024)
- The New York Times coverage of Sister April joining the Shakers (2025)
- The AP on young nuns and student debt (https://apnews.com/article/young-nuns-catholic-student-debt-aging-4d61e7ed31df84f3879b119022cc170f) and sustainable nuns! (https://www.franciscanmedia.org/st-anthony-messenger/the-nuns-are-ok-building-a-sustainable-future-for-women-religious/)
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Transcript
Full episode transcript here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14R54vWfai4WiYdI7EqBuMuJJnDBMRj3wpwrBVZW6oBs/edit?usp=sharing
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Guest Information
Connect with Monica Mercado:
- Website: https://monicalmercado.com/
- Follow Monica’s convent research trips here: https://www.american-religion.org/empty-places/loretto
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Landline is an interview-based podcast exploring pop culture and history, hosted by Mary Mahoney.
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